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I’d love to have him because of that lightning release and missile arm. But not at 1.
12? If he’s there at 12, hell yeah.
Ultimately, the Browns decide to go with Mahomes over The others, be it at 1 or 12 or (very unlikely at this point) 33, I’ll be happy with it. The only 2 scenarios I’d be upset with are 1.) not drafting a QB or 2.) Drafting Kizer.
I ask this in all seriousness:
Is there anything that Mahomes could do in the combine and at his pro day that would lead you believe he’s worthy of the #1 pick.
Now, DawgSoldier has made some excellent points about the history of QBs who have come from the Air Raid transitioning to the NFL. That said, he’s an Academic All American who left school to train at EXOS. If he comes into the combine, blows the Wonderlic out of the water and gives an Andrew Luck like breakdown of pro style offensive plays with Gruden, would that be enough?
If his footwork is cleaned up and his velocity and accuracy are head and shoulders above everyone else at the combine, would that be enough?
The reason that I ask is that there has been talk of Mahomes to us at 12. There has also been talk of Mahomes to the Bears at 3. I think the combine was custom made for a kid like this, and if he performs like I think he will, he will become the heavy favorite to be the first QB off the board. This draft reminds me a lot of 2014, where UCF product Blake Bortles rocketed up the boards while more established options (at least in college) like Manziel, Bridgewater, Carr, and Garoppolo fell into the late first or second round due to combine and pro day performances.
Regardless of who goes first, would anyone really be THAT surprised if the 3rd QB taken ends up being the best in the draft? I wouldn’t. And I’m not against going the Washington route of taking “my guy” early in the first and doubling down in the late second or 3rd if things work and Davis Webb or Brad Kaaya (or even later with a high risk player like Chad Kelly). As Ice mentioned, uncertainty in evaluations means using more picks to increase the probability of success.
But back to the original point. What can Mahomes (or Trubisky/Watson) do to convince you with the #1 pick overall?
Here’s why I believe it matters. Garrett, as talented as he is, has said he wants to play in the warm weather. He has asked the Cowboys to move up and get him. There are questions about his motor, and I believe that motivation would be an issue while he is here, and that he would be gone after his rookie contract. Seems like a huge potential to bust. So much so, that, despite my earlier favorable write up on him, I am beginning to favor Jonathan Allen from Alabama, if in fact we choose to go with a defensive lineman at #1. If Garrett is Marcell Dareus, ALlen may well be J.J. Watt.
That said, if you believe, as I do, that Garrett does not want to play or stay in Cleveland, would you entertain a trade with another team in the top 5? If we did trade out of #1, say with the Titans who have 7 picks in the first 102 picks of the 2017 NFL draft, would you pull the trigger on Mahomes at 5 if you could use the additional draft capital to fill other positions of need?
Consider that the #1 pick in the draft is worth 3,000 points. A trade with Tennessee for #5, #18, #69 and #84 would be worth approximately 3015 points. WOuld you do it? What the Browns would end up with:
#5, #12, #18, #33, #51, #65, #69, and #84 in the first 3 rounds. Knowing that by the numbers, Myles Garrett, Jonathan Allen, Jamal Adams, Marshon Lattimore or Reuben Foster would still be on the board #5, would you roll the dice and make the trade? I would, even if it means Mahomes is gone (unless he is considered the #1 overall prospect in the draft leaving the combine and validates it with his Pro Day performance). Here’s how my draft board would look after that:
My Priorities:
QB
Free Safety
Corner Back
Wide Receiver
Tight End
Strong Safety
Tackle
Center
Guard
Defensive End
Line Backer#5 – QB Patrick Mahomes (if available) – DE Myles Garrett, S Jamal Adams, CB Marshon Lattimore, DT Allen, LB Foster (in that order) if not.
#12 – Safety Jamal Adams (if available) – CB Marshon Lattimore, S Malik Hooker, DT Jonathan Allen, LB Reuben Foster, WR Corey Davis (in that order) if not.
#18 – WR Corey Davis (if available) – WR Mike Williams, TE OJ Howard, TE David Njoku (in that order) if not.
#33 – TE David Njoku (if available) – OT Cam Robinson, CB Humphrey, CB Sidney Jones, DE Charlton (if DE hasn’t already been addressed)
#51 – CB Desmond King (if CB hasn’t already been addressed twice) – OG Dan Feeney, OG Dorian Johnson, TE Adam Shaheen (if TE hasn’t already been addressed)
#65 – OT Ryan Ramczyk (falling due to injury concerns) – TE Adam Shaheen (if TE hasn’t already been addressed), OG Dan Feeney, OG Dorian Johnson,
#69 – TE Adam Shaheen (if TE hasn’t already been addressed) – OG Dan Feeney, OG Dorian Johnson, S Obi Melifonwu, C Ethan Pocic
#84 – C Ethan Pocic (if C hasn’t already been addressed)- QB Davis Webb, WR JuJu Smith-Schuster, C Pat Elflein
So, worth it to trade out of #1? Is the sum greater than the parts if we trade back or would you prefer to stay at 1?
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0Dunno why I haven’t thought about this before..Mahomes is in a lot of ways is another version of RG3…
Is he that kind of athlete or have the charisma…..not quite.
But they do come from the same conference having played in the same system vs the same perennial poor defenses.. Seriously the best QB to come out of the Big 12 since the Browns came back and make it as a pro is what Tannehill…..???
Anyways Mahome’s hype is building like Griffen’s was.
Now to your questions if he cleans up his foot work and is more consistent mechanics wise will that sway me. A bit, as it will show he can be coached up and apply it.
To me he can’t gain much ground in my eyes at the combine as my concerns are all football IQ and translating to the next level based. And the combine doesn’t illustrate anything on those concerns.
I think the basic question irregardless of what Mahomes does at the combine positively is this. Is his VERY apparent physical upside merit the risk of taking despite him being very ILL prepared to transition to the next level because of the scheme?
My magic eight ball keeps telling me ask at another time… and my crystal ball is still set on the 2nd week of Nov last year for some reason 😀 and I am out of tea leaves.
So what I am left with is the multi car train wreck of all others from that system that have tried to make that transition. And say no…..
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
Is there anything that Mahomes could do in the combine and at his pro day that would lead you believe he’s worthy of the #1 pick.
No.
But if he’s there at 12, I’d seal clap if we take him.
DawgSoldier, I don’t think the RG3 comparison is too far off honestly. I would assert though, that Mahomes, as an Academic All American, is operating on another level in terms of intelligence than most Big 12 QBS. Additionally, as a former pitcher who was clocked at 96 mph, there’s an effortlessness in his throwing motion that wasn’t there with RG3. And because he isn’t as athletic as RG3, he doesn’t have the run first mentality, always keeping his eyes down field (and in several instances, looking the safety off the WR) and looking to make a throw instead of running it. They’re both phenomenal athletes, but RG3 is Football/Track where Mahomes was Football/Pitcher. While RG3 is has an excellent arm, Mahomes is in the historically elite category, making 60 yard throws with a flick of the wrist from his back foot while falling away.
One of the other things that I like about Mahomes is that he won the job from Davis Webb and sent him packing to Cal. This kid has a history of dominance, both on the field and in the locker room. Does RG3 make a better Subway commercial? You betcha. But Mahomes has the most production of anyone in NCAA history. Ever. Of all the Air Raid Qbs, Spread QBs, etc. that have come before, this guy is number 1.
But I think your magic 8 ball is right DS, and I think the time to shake it again will be after the combine.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0But Mahomes has the most production of anyone in NCAA history.
Uhhhhh, guys like Case Keenum, Graham Harrel, Kellen Moore, Colt Brennen, Ty Detmer and a long list of others might have something to say about that cause uh, he’s not even in the top 20 for yardage or TD’s so……might wanna back that claim down a notch or 20.
Uhhhhh, guys like Case Keenum, Graham Harrel, Kellen Moore, Colt Brennen, Ty Detmer and a long list of others might have something to say about that cause uh, he’s not even in the top 20 for yardage or TD’s so……might wanna back that claim down a notch or 20.
I’m not going to back away from my statement:
But Mahomes has the most production of anyone in NCAA history.
But I will modify it slightly. Mahomes has the most offensive production in a single game of anyone in NCAA history. Additionally, Mahomes had 11,252 yards in just 2.5 seasons, 5052 of which came last season. If he stays for his Senior year (barring injury), he easily moves past fellow Texas Tech alum Graham Harrell at #4 with 15,793 yards and challenges Landry Jones and Timmy Change with 16,646 and 17,072 yards, respectively. Account for that missing half a season at the start of his career and his production is on par with Case Keenum’s.
Sure, I’ll concede the “shoulda, woulda, coulda” argument. But when you extrapolate what Mahomes did, apples to apples, it’s easy to see there is validity in the statement. However, that doesn’t tell the whole story. Look at the difference in their running games.
Case Keenum:
2007: Anthony Alridge and Terrance Ganaway combine for 2,147 yards and 20 TD
2008: Bryce Beall and Andre Kohn combine for 1,310 yards and 16 TD
2009: Bryce Beall and Charles Sims combine for 1,368 yards and 16 TDs
2010: Bryce Beall, Michael Hayes and Chris Wilson combine for 1,621 yards and 20 TDs.
2011: Charles Sims and Michael Hayes combine for 1,548 and 20 TDPat Mahomes:
2014 (half season): Deandre Washington and Justin Stockton combine for 1,151 and 6 TD
2015: Deandre Washington and Justin Stockton combine for 1,859 and 19 TD
2016: Da’leon Ward and Demarcus Felton combine for 782 yards and 6 TDsMy point is, in 2016, teams knew they could tee off on Mahomes and he still torched them for 5052 yards. Keenum had a solid run game for the duration of his career. Those plays where you seeing him running around and chucking up the rock? A necessity because the line play was horrid.
Offensive lines are judged by results, correct? In that case, Tech has had a very impressive offensive line over the course of the years, and has been the most proficient area of the football team in terms of churning out NFL talent (six offensive lineman have been drafted since 2005). Last season, Tech allowed 1.46 sacks per game (tied with Baylor and Oregon among others), which given the amount of times Tech dropped back to pass, is an outstanding number.
Unfortunately, this is not last season and Tech no longer has Le’Raven Clark, Jared Kaster, or Alfredo Morales. Bummer.
So with no line to speak of, no running game to speak of, what does Mahomes do? He goes out and drops 734 passing yards and another 85 yards on the ground (819 yards total) and 7 TD (5 through the air, 2 on the ground) on #16 Oklahoma. Yes, yes, we all know Big 12 defenses suck, but this Oklahoma team finished the season 5th in the AP top 25 and 3rd in the coaches poll. The Oklahoma defense allowed an average of 26.46 points against teams like Ohio State, Auburn, TCU Texas and Baylor. That’s the team Mahomes, with that offensive line and that running game, set the record with in 2016. I’m not trying to sell you on him, I’m just trying to explain to you why I’m sold.
This kid didn’t just throw down on Stephen F Austin, he threw down on one of the best teams in the country with no line, no running game and a pair of starting WRs listed at 5’11”. He’s not Johnny Manziel throwing to the 6’5″ Mike Evans. He’s not Brandon Weeden throwing to the troubled but talented Justin Blackmon. He’s not RG3 running first and then throwing to Josh Gordon and Kendall Wright.
And Oklahoma has several NFL draft prospects. Safety Ahmad Thomas, Linebacker Jordan Evans, DT Charles Walker this year while Cornerback Jordan Thomas, Safety Steven Parker and Linebackers Ogbonnia Okoronkwo & Emmanuel Beal are highly rated prospects for 2018. That game wasn’t a fluke, it was a statement.
At any rate, I think you get my point. I was talking about the record setting game and not a record setting career. I think I’ve proven he’s worthy of that company, not just because of his stats, but the fact that he was able to put up those stats with no help from his running game or line.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0http://1340thefan.com/patrick-mahomes-named-bleacher-reports-nfl-combine-breakout-player/
The nation is starting to pay attention to Patrick Mahomes and his massive potential.
His record at Texas Tech will slowly fade into the distance as people start to pay attention to his arm strength, size and the rest of his measurables, and there is no better showcase of your measureables than the NFL Combine.
Patrick Mahomes will do everything but the bench press in the showcase that begins March 1st for the rest of the quarterbacks and Patrick Mahomes. You’ll be able to see his on field work on March 4th.Bleacher Report has released a top 10 list of Breakout Names that will benefit the most from the combine. Patrick Mahomes is the cover boy on the article and is also the only quarterback in the set of 10.
Bleacherreport.com frames the list as a list of players who have the greatest chance for, “Impressive performances” that, “generate buzz around potential breakout stars.” The article names the Dallas Cowboys’ Byron Jones and New Orleans Saints’ Brandin Cooks as players who used great combine workouts and turned them into first round draft picks.
Here’s what the author has to say about Patrick Mahomes,
Mahomes is a gifted athlete with prototypical size at 6’3″ and 230 pounds and possesses the strongest arm in the class. Teams will also fall in love with his bloodlines since his father, Pat, was an MLB pitcher for 11 seasons.
“He definitely has the tools to be a No. 1,” an NFC scout told Bucky Brooks. “He’s big and athletic with big-time arm talent. I know his numbers are inflated, but he can make all of the throws. I think the kid can play. … I like him a lot!”Concerns regarding his understanding of NFL passing concepts since he comes from an Air Raid scheme can be quelled with the work he does in the evenings during team interviews. If those sessions go as well as his workout is expected to, Mahomes will find himself in the conversation as the top quarterback prospect.
The most important thing Patrick can do at the combine is prove to NFL GMs and coaching staffs that he isn’t just another spread style quarterback that doesn’t have the necessary experience reading defenses and progressions to be warranted a 1st round draft slot.
Mahomes will be impressive physically. That’s not in doubt. It’s the plague of a phrase attatched to him, “system quarterback” that Mahomes will have to overcome at the combine.
The good news is that he will have ample opportunity to do that when he meets with teams for one on one interviews, and if Mahomes can prove himself mentally you might see Patrick Mahomes jolting up draft boards across the NFL.
Read More: Patrick Mahomes Named Bleacher Report’s NFL Combine Breakout Player | http://1340thefan.com/patrick-mahomes-named-bleacher-reports-nfl-combine-breakout-player/?trackback=tsmclip
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0Feels like you are trying to talk us into a bad idea DawgStyle, just one more shot from the ole Air Raid keg….I swear you’ll like this time…….
SMH…..
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
Feels like you are trying to talk us into a bad idea DawgStyle, just one more shot from the ole Air Raid keg….I swear you’ll like this time…….
SMH…..
I can’t argue the history of Air Raid QBs. What I can tell you is correlation does not imply causation. Air Raid and Spread schools have traditionally been unable to recruit top tier talent at QB because serious NFL prospects wanted to play in pro style offenses to help their draft status. However, college football became extremely popular in their own rite, with many college coaches now making more than their NFL counterparts. The focus on “winning now” as opposed to simply developing talent for the NFL has lead to a surprising number of very talented QBs choosing to play for schools that run the Spread and Air Raid.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, while beneficial for a prospects development, coming from the Spread or Air Raid no longer means a QB cannot adjust to the NFL. While the Spread has had more success as of late, seeing Goff and Mahomes being discussed in the early part of the first round is an indication that things are changing.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0
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