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I don’t want 0-16
I don’t think you’re really understanding the fact that that doesn’t fucking matter, because we’re going to do it anyway.
San Francisco is (IMO) the clear cut worst team in the NFL.
We, are the worst team in the NFL.
do we really want meangless wins once again costing us the future?
Regardless of the implications behind it, how the draft plays out or whatever happens, there is no such thing as a “meaningless win”. Especially here.
I’ll tell ya why. We…..don’t win here. At all. That’s our culture. Our culture is to accept failure.
That shit’s gotta change. The guys who “might be” on the team next year don’t have shit at all to do with the guys on the field playing in the games “right now”. It’s that mentality unto itself that has us in this quagmire to begin with. Fuck that shit. Enough of it. I don’t give 2 fucks about the draft. It doesn’t matter.
It doesn’t fucking matter…..today. Do you think the Patriots, the Broncos, the Packers, or any other team in the NFL is out there on Sunday with Front Offices thinking to themselves “well, I sure hope todays game doesn’t fuck up the draft for us and we aren’t able to land so-and-so….”? Do you?
Of course they aren’t. But I gur-an-goddamn-tee you we have been. And that’s fucking bullshit. What has that line of thinking got us? “Whew, glad we didn’t beat the Bengals, we can get Richardson now, alright!!!!!!!”
Ge the fuck outta here.
Win. Win the next week. Win the week after that. Then win the week after that. I don’t give a fuck one way or the other about who is or could be on this team next year. At all. And neither should any one of those guys on the 53 man roster. The Patriots could care less where they draft, and ya know why? Because they fucking win all the time.
Win.
“What does winning cost us?” Who the fuck thinks like that? What a Cleveland fucking argument to bring to the table.
Now I’m all pissed off. Fuck you Soup.
My point is Indy purposely tanked a season to get Luck. We win meaningless games and traded UP for Richardson. Miss out on Goff (could be a good thing). It changes the players that could actually make a difference to get past the 4 win garbage. FYI I still want to win. It’s meant to spark a conversation.
Freedom!!!
I want the Browns to win, I really do. At the same time, I was rooting hard for the 49ers to pull it out yesterday so the Browns could win and not lose a spot. It just is what it is.
I’m not saying there is a franchise about in the next draft, but if there is, 1 spot can be the difference between Peyton Manning and Ryan leaf. Andrew Luck and RGIII.
Am I rooting for the Browns to lose? No. am I rooting for them to have the best possible draft position to better the team next year? You bet your ass I am.
Goff has looked like the real deal so far, but it’s early. Don’t forget, Wentz looked excellent through his first few games before being exposed. Not to say either one of them won’t succeed, but there’s no point in grading them out just yet.
Goff has looked like the real deal so far, but it’s early. Don’t forget, Wentz looked excellent through his first few games before being exposed. Not to say either one of them won’t succeed, but there’s no point in grading them out just yet.
That wasn’t my point, he just happened to fit the narrative of the discussion I was trying to start.
Freedom!!!
Just to play devils advocate, wins didn’t cost us Goff, really. If we wanted him, we could’ve traded up and got him, and for less than the Rams paid given we had the 2nd spot.
Now, if we didn’t think he was worth it to move up and get, logically it holds that we would’ve traded back and picked up extra picks if we’d had the first pick, and still passed on Goff, because the value of the trade is worth more than the player. That’s oversimplifying things a lot, but the fact is it wasn’t our spot that cost us so much as the Rams placing his value higher than we did.
I get that, just didn’t want to start a whole new thread for one comment.
As far as playing for draft picks, I have no interest in tanking for #1 overall. We need wins to show the young guys their hard work can pay off, that the coaches know what they are talking about, and that we have a system that can work. We need wins to help convince Pryor and Collins to sign with the team this offseason…those two are just as valuable as any player we can possibly draft this year.
We’re the Browns. 1st overall, 5th overall, 32nd…we can mess them all up equally.
And that said, I don’t see a plausible scenario where we can win a game. I’m just saying I’d much rather see us win out than go 0-16, to me it would be better for the long-term health of our team.
I get that, just didn’t want to start a whole new thread for one comment.
As far as playing for draft picks, I have no interest in tanking for #1 overall. We need wins to show the young guys their hard work can pay off, that the coaches know what they are talking about, and that we have a system that can work. We need wins to help convince Pryor and Collins to sign with the team this offseason…those two are just as valuable as any player we can possibly draft this year.
We’re the Browns. 1st overall, 5th overall, 32nd…we can mess them all up equally.
And that said, I don’t see a plausible scenario where we can win a game. I’m just saying I’d much rather see us win out than go 0-16, to me it would be better for the long-term health of our team.I get what you are saying, but wins don’t always translate. It’s a myth. angini in 2009 won the final 4 games to go 5-11. 2010 we started 0-3 and finished 5-11.
At some point the discussion is short term pain for long term gain. If losing out lands us the next Tom Brady then it’s worth it rather than landing us the next Ryan Leaf and a bunch of 4 win seasons.
Obviously there’s no way to know, but that’s why the discussion is being had on it.
Pryor has been great – it would suck to lose him, that said – *he’s far from elite. He lacks the second gear. That 54 yard pass should’ve been a TD. Elite guys get hit in stride and immediately hit level 2 and are gone (Beckham, Bryant, Fitzgerald – those guys aren’t getting caught). Personally I’d trade Pryor and Collins for Tom Brady (meaning a player like that) any day of the week and 100 times on Sunday.
*before anyone gets their panties in a bunch – he’s the best WR we’ve ever had since 1999. His tranition is amazing and should only get better as he goes on. I do NOT want to lose him.
Freedom!!!
I use to espouse that line of thinking, and I still want the Browns to have the best draft position, after the 2014 draft I’ve come to the conclusion that draft position isn’t all that important if you have competent people doing the drafting.
Point in case being the Browns and the Raiders. We had the 4th pick and the 32nd. Raiders had the 5th and 33rd, one pick difference in each of the 1st two rounds. We came away with Justin Gilbert, Johnny Manziel, Joel Bitonio, and Cameron Erving. Raiders got Mack and Carr.
If you have talented guys picking the players, where you pick isn’t so important, in most cases. It’s a big reason why teams that routinely pick later in the draft are still able to win year after year.
as far as playing for draft picks, I have no interest in tanking for #1 overall. We need wins to show the young guys their hard work can pay off, that the coaches know what they are talking about, and that we have a system that can work. We need wins to help convince Pryor and Collins to sign with the team this offseason…those two are just as valuable as any player we can possibly draft this year.
We’re the Browns. 1st overall, 5th overall, 32nd…we can mess them all up equally.
^^^He gets it.
I’ve come to the conclusion that draft position isn’t all that important if you have competent people doing the drafting.
And ^^^he gets it.
Sure, some franchises land guys #1 overall and they are successful. Matt Stafford, Andrew Luck, Eli Manning and a few others who are serviceable like a Carson Palmer or Alex Smith. Cool, awesome, great.
But it’s not a necessity. We all know Brady went in the 6th round. Brees went with the last pick of the 2nd. Joe Flacco was #18. Aaron Rodgers went 24th. Phillip Rivers went at #4, Big Ben at #11. Ryan Tannehill went 8th. Russel Wilson is a 3rd rounder. Dak Prescott is a 3rd rounder. We could have drafted every single one of these guys.
We could win out and still be in a position to find someone of any of these guys’ caliber at the positions they were taken.
I give zero fucks about wins affecting draft position because it doesn’t mean shit. You still have to pick the players, and you still have to pick successful ones. The #1 overall might mean Luck, but it also might mean Jamarcus Russel, it depends on how well your front office is. It’s not where you pick, it’s who you pick.
Competency. That’s all I’m asking for. This season, and beyond.
Now this season, we’ve made some good discoveries (Pryor, Shelton as an every-down player), seem to have some decent rookies in place (Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib)…I’ll give the suits this much: they’re trying. But for every good player, it seems that there’s at least three bad ones.
Thing is, I don’t know about you guys, but I’m fucking tired of trying. Tired of that feeling where we MIGHT win a game, then something stupid happens. So tired of seeing the ball going where the receiver isn’t, or screaming “get rid of the fucking ball!” at my TV, the fumbles, the ineptitude, the lucky win.
I want to see a team that, for once, dominates their opponents. The team that causes the other team to make mistakes. I want to see players go out and execute a game plan perfectly. Not to hope for a win, but to KNOW they’re going to win. Every year, I catch myself hoping that it’s finally “that season”, only to watch mediocrity (at best) in motion. It’s old and musty, and it has to come to an end.
I have no doubt that we have the right coach in place. But please, stop with the goofy fucking formations for now, because all that these guys are doing is gearing up for a nice delay penalty. And you see it constantly on the “normal” plays…guys telling other guys “you’re supposed to be over there, not here”…there’s no use risking 5 more yards because someone forgot to read the playbook.
And to end this little rant, I’ll add that I could fucking care less who we draft. Stop sucking so badly get players who are going to win football games. Because two winning seasons in nearly 20 years…you’d better find a way to have more soon, or Cleveland will be the first city in NFL history to watch their team (named the Browns) leave twice…and maybe 1/10 of the fans who were around for the first exodus would even give a shit if they did. I mean, why the fuck would a millennial (you know, born in 2000 or so) want to root for a team that’s had 2 winning seasons in their entire life?
Figure it out. We’re sick of losing. Fucking sick of it.
I use to espouse that line of thinking, and I still want the Browns to have the best draft position, after the 2014 draft I’ve come to the conclusion that draft position isn’t all that important if you have competent people doing the drafting.
Point in case being the Browns and the Raiders. We had the 4th pick and the 32nd. Raiders had the 5th and 33rd, one pick difference in each of the 1st two rounds. We came away with Justin Gilbert, Johnny Manziel, Joel Bitonio, and Cameron Erving. Raiders got Mack and Carr.
If you have talented guys picking the players, where you pick isn’t so important, in most cases. It’s a big reason why teams that routinely pick later in the draft are still able to win year after year.Posted a response yesterday and it didn’t take. Anyway – well stated and excellent points. I agree with everything you said when you put it the way you did.
Freedom!!!
Soup, when you say “Tom Brady or a player like that”, do you mean “Tom Brady or another of the top 5 players of all time”? Because that’s what I get out of that statement. And yes, I would gladly trade both Pryor and Collins, both of whom are arguably in the top 100 players at present, for Reggie White or Johnny Unitas.
But would I trade those two for the chance to take Winston over Mariota? Or to have a clean slate to pick Blake Bottles or EJ Manuel? Because that’s a more realistic scenario. Just because you have the #1 pick in the draft and a chance to pick whomever you want, there’s no guarantee they’re particularly good.
Woah, easy there DPD, back up from the ledge. The frustration is everywhere. I barely even cheer or yell or show any emotion at all during games anymore, when I use to get hatemail from China complaining about the noise. It’s been a loooong 9 years since our last winning season.
But you touched on something relevant to the draft conversation that I’d like to call attention to. There’s 2 parts to building through the draft: drafting the right players, and developing them properly. We actually have had guys in place that could draft decent before, but we’ve never had coaches good at developing players.
Very few times do I ever remember players developing as Browns. They played at the same level they were at when we got them, and that was it. Jam Wimbkey comes to mind. Guys like Phil Taylor, jabaal Sheard, Mingo, Gilbert, Brian Robiskie, massaquoi, I could go on an on. we knew in year 1 whether a player was a bust or not because they’d never improve.
I think we’ve turned the corner though. I’m talking about Shelton and Pryor of course. With Hue, they’ve really blossomed into great players, and others have shown imorovement as well. Body Calhoun, for one, Seth Devalve has been making cameos lately, Christian Kirksey is flying around making plays.
This all goes back to my previous argument to say draft position isn’t that important, because if you make good picks and properly develop the players, you’ll get talent no matter where you pick. I think(hope) we finally have a chance to do that.
Soup, when you say “Tom Brady or a player like that”, do you mean “Tom Brady or another of the top 5 players of all time”? Because that’s what I get out of that statement. And yes, I would gladly trade both Pryor and Collins, both of whom are arguably in the top 100 players at present, for Reggie White or Johnny Unitas.
But would I trade those two for the chance to take Winston over Mariota? Or to have a clean slate to pick Blake Bottles or EJ Manuel? Because that’s a more realistic scenario. Just because you have the #1 pick in the draft and a chance to pick whomever you want, there’s no guarantee they’re particularly good.Dawg E. Dawg convinced me I’m wrong – see my response above yours.
Freedom!!!
Dawg E, I completely agree with you. It’s just that, in reading your post about the Raiders, a nerve was touched. All of the missed opportunities that this organization has had is…I mean, we should have accidentally built a good football team by now. Instead, since Butch Davis has been here, it’s been a nonstop cycle of:
1.) Hire new coach
2.) Coach brings new staff, new playbook
3.) Fire all players that don’t “fit”
4.) Watch as any 1-4 of said players play well for another team
5.) Meanwhile, we sign a couple of free agent nobodies that are guaranteed to start
6.) Draft comes, and we always draft who *might* be our QB of the future
7.) Preseason games are just interesting enough to give us hope
8.) Game 1 of the season, and all hope is crushed
9.) By game 7, we’re at least on our second QB, the guy Joe Thomas always says is “turning into a leader”. We may have won 2 games at most here
10.) By week 17, most of the people at the stadium with us at home are fans of the opposing team…and has likely been that way for the past 3 home games
11.) Then comes Coaching Judgement Day…sometimes they deserve the axe (Shurmer), sometimes they don’t (Chud), and sometimes there’s just enough there to make it another season (Mangini, Crennel)Then the cycle repeats. It’s almost like a reality show.
Yes, despite this season (I’ve already given in to 0-16), this staff needs to stay together. Not just for the sake of competency, but if you fire Jackson, who the fuck would want the gig, some coach from an Akron or Youngstown high school? No, it’s not Jackson’s fault that he’s inherited half-implemented plans for this team, and it’s been very clear all season that he’s doing his best to patch the holes the size of bowling balls, and he’s using BBs, because that’s all he has. I get it, and I truly hope that this guy will take us to the Super Bowl one day.
This fucking team is like the Money Pit (of Oak Island lore)…it’s been dug up, blown up, filled in, dug up more, filled back in so many times…will there be treasure? Who knows? But you either tune in because you hope there will be, or you get sick of hearing the “oh, so close…but nothing yet. We’ll get there, though. Tune in next week”.
I mean, I watch the Browns play every Sunday, for free, and at the end of the game I feel I want a refund. That’s pretty fucking bad. No man, I’m not off the ledge yet, but I’m hanging onto that tree branch jutting out of the side of that cliff. And the wind is picking up.
Something positive needs to happen.
Dawg E. Dawg convinced me I’m wrong – see my response above yours.
I didn’t see that until after I posted. I was mostly just giving you a hard time for the phrase “Tom Brady or a player like that”, which you have to admit is a bit silly.
Dawg E. Dawg convinced me I’m wrong – see my response above yours.
I didn’t see that until after I posted. I was mostly just giving you a hard time for the phrase “Tom Brady or a player like that”, which you have to admit is a bit silly.
Never in my life have I been silly or used hyperbole to get my point across. I’m also not sarcastic. [/sarcasm]
Freedom!!!
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