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goo root for buffalo then signed phil savage
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
I think the only thing that had me excited about this pick was being able to read Soups reaction lol.
I’ll play Devils advocate here on this one. First and foremost, Brian Kelly came unglued last year. He’s been an overall mediocre coach, with more downs than ups. In 2015, Kizer had the Irish at 10-3 and in the Fiesta Bowl, overall a pretty damn good season and he was garnering a lot of hype. Then came last year, and the wheels fell off. I have to wonder how much of this was really on Kizer, and how much was on Kelly. The Irish defense was abysmal, letting up over 36 points per game, and that caused the offense, and especially Kizer, to constantly force things. That is what really led to some horrible decisions. Couple it with the fact that Notre Dame was lacking any real talent on offense. His completion percentage dropped 5 points to below 60, yet he actually threw for more yards (2,900), more TD’s (26), and less INT’s (9) than he did the year before.
The positives for him are there. First and foremost, he’s the size that you want. You can’t find a more prototypical QB build than Kizer at 6-5 220. Many, many scouts had him rated as the most physically gifted QB in this draft, and the reality is that’s hard to argue. He’s big, he’s a load to take down, he has great mobility (18 rushing TD’s in 2 years), and he has an NFL caliber arm capable of making every throw. It’s not elite-level arm strength, but it’s pretty damn close. He can spin it.
All of the negatives come from the “between the ears” side of things. That, and wow, he’s really overconfident. He has that streak of “I’m the best player on this field” that borders on arrogance, and that in itself also led to some really bad plays throughout the year.
I’m not gonna be a big Negative Nancy about this. Truth be told, do I like the pick? No. I don’t. I have a lot of reservations about Kizer. But……..I’m sick of always poo pooing and ranting and raving.
I trust Hue Jacksons abilities. If he can make a guy like Andy Dalton and AJ McCarron into solid QB’s, I believe that he can work with Kizer. If, and it’s a big if indeed, he is coachable. If he can find some humble pie and lose that “I’m gonna be the greatest QB of all-time” shit and just shut up and listen, he might be able to do this.
He didn’t play is some shit-ass Air-raid offense. He took snaps under center. He played in Indiana, so he’s not some California boy coming into the cold of Cleveland not knowing what’s in store. We have a defense that just added an elite pass rusher to wreak havoc on QB’s and compliment Ogbah and Shelton on the line, we inked Jamie Collins to a deal, Kirksey is a stud, Peppers can run like a paid assasin around the secondary and take pressure off of Joe Haden, our line has been rebuilt and has 3 Pro-Bowlers on it, our RB’s are solid……..I mean, we’re fucking improving. Kizer doesn’t need to start, and if he plays, he has a solid team behind him to help him.
The simple fact of the matter is, he’s a Brown now, so I’m gonna root for him, and I’m gonna cheer for him. I may not have been a fan of the pick, but I’m not rolling my eyes at it like when we took Weeden, and Kizer didn’t cost us a 1st rounder either.
I like the size, I like the strength, I love the arm, the rest I’m putting into Hue’s lap and saying “hey there Mr. QB guru, time to earn your fucking paycheck, cause you have some work to do”.
So we should just sign Ryan Mallett. Size and arm strength are his strength.
Weaknesses?
Holds the ball too long
Waits for guys to get open before throwing it
Falls apart completely in Q4 (when given the opportunity last year failed in every attempt to tie or win with the game on the line)
After his top talent left he regressed majorly (aka he didn’t elevate the players around him)
Locks on his primary target.
I’ve repeated this many times over the years. When the strengths are “big frame strong arm” and not much else, that equals a bust.
Freedom!!!
Suggested Edit Shooter:
The only thing larger than my knee-jerk overreactions is my propensity to make false equivalencies and lack of knowledge when discussing anything related to football. That, is a FACT. 4-27-17
Other than that, you’re looking good Soup! I’m just curious…
Soup, have you ever said “Go Browns!”?
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0soup get down off the ledge my man, so what we got the kid with the 52nd pick he was the #1 or 2 qb on a lot of experts boards if you wait for the perfect qb then you’ll be waiting a long time all qb’s have flaws even the greats like Brady and Manning if the kid works out then no one will cry and if he don’t we still get one next year.
Soup, have you ever said “Go Browns!”?
You know, I don’t think he has. I DO remember him saying “I’m an idiot, and I love being an idiot!”. Those were fun times.
Damn dude, it’s not like they’re roping the future of the franchise, or their jobs, on this guy’s neck. If they felt that strongly for him as you are against him, they had plenty of other opportunities to grab him and didn’t.
I’m not going to defend the pick (I really didn’t want him either), but I sure as shit ain’t veiwing him as the be all end all either. End of the day, we followed our board and got him at a steal. We gave up nothing but pick 52.
That’s a win, whether you want to kick your feet about it or not.
Soup, have you ever said “Go Browns!”?
You know, I don’t think he has. I DO remember him saying “I’m an idiot, and I love being an idiot!”. Those were fun times.
Damn dude, it’s not like they’re roping the future of the franchise, or their jobs, on this guy’s neck. If they felt that strongly for him as you are against him, they had plenty of other opportunities to grab him and didn’t.
I’m not going to defend the pick (I really didn’t want him either), but I sure as shit ain’t veiwing him as the be all end all either. End of the day, we followed our board and got him at a steal. We gave up nothing but pick 52.
That’s a win, whether you want to kick your feet about it or not.They got 1 shot to find a QB. They have one hope past 2018. They must run the ball 35+ times a game. If they don’t, with our brutal schedule we will be 2-14 at best. With the short window they have to see if Kizer can play now because if we go 2-14 their only hope is picking a QB 1 overall next year.
Freedom!!!
While no one wants to go 2-14 next year, there are three reasons doing so may not be so bad:
Josh Allen
Sam Darnold
Josh RosenIf they don’t go 2-14 next year, there a good chance they’ll be able to trade with a team that does to grab the QB they desire. It’s not even like they took Kizer at 33, they took him at 52.
If I’m Sashi Brown and company, I sold this whole thing to Jimmy Haslam already before the draft. “Look Jimmy, every pundit says there are no 1st round talents in this draft. If one of these guys falls into the second round, we’ll kick the tires on him, but “OUR guy” is <2018 prospect>. You can’t shine shit, right Mr. Haslam? Exactly, so we’ll put ourselves in the best possible position to succeed by taking a shot on one of this year’s wildcard QBs knowing if he falls flat on his face we’re positioned to take <2018 draft prospect>. If the guy we pick this year goes balls out, even better. We inject high level talent into several roster spots”.
And oh by the way, Kessler wasn’t complete crap last year, so maybe he rises to the occasion. Maybe Hue can do something with “Twiglight” Brock Osweiler. Maybe Kizer is a hit, or maybe we draft #1 next year and solve the QB problem for the next 15 years with a surefire prospect. It’s all about chances to succeed and not tying our cart to a horse that hasn’t proven himself.
818 mph. 13,723 feet. 3 second burn.
https://youtu.be/hy-3bb1Nqy0After his top talent left he regressed majorly (aka he didn’t elevate the players around him)
This is another goofy take.
You mean, when all the good players left, and all that was left was garbage, the QB struggled? The HELL YOU SAY!! Now where have I seen that movie before?
You say he didn’t elevate anyone around him, but the flip side to that is who was there around him to elevate? If you take a good QB and surround him with crappy players, that QB is going to struggle, I don’t care who he is. It’s not an indictment of the QB, it could just show that they were seriously lacking talent at the skill positions.
I remember the day when soupy wrote a post about how the qb is the least of the browns needs and not the most important player on the field and they should never draft one before 3rd round….
queue in charlie frye.
I am not sure why anyone on this forum wouldn’t think Kizer will play this year with our other guys going down. Wasted pick – sure, every qb we have ever drafted has been wasted.
Personally, I hope he succeeds. He went to school just down the street from where I grew up and have met him at fundraiser events. He is a very intelligent person who seems to be a hardworker.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
Zach Mettenberger is available – he was released again. I know people on here LOVED him because he’s big with a strong arm. Read a defense? Overrated. Accuracy? No point to it. Big with a strong arm? That’s all you need!
FYI – I’ve yet to have a friend give me a reason Kizer was a good pick. The closest I got was a massive Notre Dame fan who said, “Hes big, strong and hard to bring down. He’s smart. But he needed another year in college an I wouldn’t have taken him that early.”
Consensus from non-Browns fans whose opinions I respect? Kizer and Peppers were huge reaches where they took them.
This describes how it felt. The first hit to the back of the head was the Peppers pick. The finishing hit was Kizer:
FYI – I was 25 rows up in the corner last night. This hit happened right below me. Most brutal cheap shot sequence ever.
Freedom!!!
So disgusted. Picked the fucking worst QB in the draft.
http://cloudassetserver.com/STL/posts/185/sp_04_976x0.jpg
he’s big with a strong arm. Read a defense? Overrated. Accuracy? No point to it. Big with a strong arm? That’s all you need!
The way you compartmentalize opinions and then myopically stare at them with rifle-scope tunnel vision really is an art form that you have mastered beyond the mere mortals you walk among could ever do.
he’s big with a strong arm. Read a defense? Overrated. Accuracy? No point to it. Big with a strong arm? That’s all you need!
The way you compartmentalize opinions and then myopically stare at them with rifle-scope tunnel vision really is an art form that you have mastered beyond the mere mortals you walk among could ever do.
You mentioned his strengths elsewhere.
Big
Strong armThat was it. It also describes Anderson, Mettenberger, Mallett, etc. Big with strong arm.
Weakness?
Accuracy
Ability to read a D
Holds ball too long
Waits u til a guy is open before throwingYou are describing a 6th round pick like Anderson, Mettenberger. Yay. So glad we used a 2nd in him. He’ll, as bad as Mallett was Bill wasted a 3rd on him. And his guy goes in the 2nd with similar skills?
Take off the Brown and orange glasses. Use your head
Freedom!!!
FYI – I’ve yet to have a friend give me a reason Kizer was a good pick.
Should have stopped after “I’ve yet to have a friend”. BOOM ROASTED
Anywho, I don’t really care what Soup thinks about QB’s. He thinks every QB (except Frye) sucks and is a waste. Smart on his part because most QB’s drafted in the NFL suck. I’m guessing 15 or 20 get drafted every year… and there are about 12 in the world who do not suck.
FYI – I’ve yet to have a friend give me a reason Kizer was a good pick.
Should have stopped after “I’ve yet to have a friend”. BOOM ROASTED
Anywho, I don’t really care what Soup thinks about QB’s. He thinks every QB (except Frye) sucks and is a waste. Smart on his part because most QB’s drafted in the NFL suck. I’m guessing 15 or 20 get drafted every year… and there are about 12 in the world who do not suck.Really? Because I recall wanting Goff last year and Bridgewater or Carr in recent times. I recall wanting to take a late pick risk on Chad Kelly this year.
I also recall you NOT liking any QBs in this draft.
Find me Kizers strengths and list them.
Freedom!!!
STRENGTHS
Has a rare blend of height, strength and speed. Flashes the ability to zip the ball into tight spots. Has a quick, over-the-top delivery. Puts a ton of revolutions on the ball and can make all the throws. Frequently evades the rush for second-chance opportunities. Threat to pick up large chunks when he tucks.
WEAKNESSES
Not proficient at going through his progressions or making NFL reads. Doesn’t anticipate receivers getting open, must see them in a window. Inconsistent accuracy due to poor footwork and falling away to avoid a big hit. Despite athleticism, needs to improve his drop mechanics and the finer points of pocket mobility. Numerous off the field issues worth investigating.
—————————————That’s the scouting report on Cam Newton, but it reads very similar to reports on Kizer. I’m not equating the two, and I’m not a fan of Kizer, but you seem to equate being big with a strong arm with being a bust, and that’s simply not true.
Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Cam Newton, and Matt Ryan have all gone to Super Bowls, and the first thing any scouting report would say about them is that they are big with strong arms.
You mentioned his strengths elsewhere.
Big
Strong armActually, I listed more than that, but instead of continuing you just shoved your fingers in your ears while yelling “I CAN’T HEAR YOU I CAN’T HEAR YOU!”
I mean, if I list more than 2 things but you choose to ignore everything besides those 2 things, that’s on you, not me.
And ya know what, while I’m at it I’m gonna lay out something else. You keep calling him inaccurate. Was he laser-guided with his throws? No, but in 2 years as a starter he has a career completion percentage over 60%. A bit of coaching and a bit of work, going from 60 to 65% is actually quit an attainable feat. Would you be happy with a QB that had a 65% completion percentage? I know I sure as fuck would, because he’d be in the top 5 of the league.
I don’t get how you can call a guy with a career completion percentage over 60% inaccurate with a straight face. Because it’s bullshit.
Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Cam Newton, and Matt Ryan have all gone to Super Bowls, and the first thing any scouting report would say about them is that they are big with strong arms.
Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Cam Newton, and Matt Ryan have all gone to Super Bowls, and the first thing any scouting report would say about them is that they are big with strong arms.
<iframe width=”474″ height=”267″ src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZB52NEPJxUs?feature=oembed” frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen=””></iframe>
Bye bye to that theory. Here’s Ben’s. It reads like a 1st round pick. Nothing like Kizer:
Good: Big armed pocket passer with the abilities to make plays in or out of the pocket. Poised under pressure, looks off the safety and takes what the defense gives him. Possesses a terrific pump fake, drives his long passes down the field and smartly places his deep throws in front of the target, letting receivers run to the ball. Gets outside the pocket, makes plays on the move and loses nothing on his throws displaying zip on the short passes or driving the deep tosses while on the run. In complete control of the offense in every sense of the word and a true leader that makes good decisions and does not put his team in a bad spot.
The Bad: Needs to improve his footwork, release and does not throw the tightest spirals.
Freedom!!!
Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Cam Newton, and Matt Ryan have all gone to Super Bowls, and the first thing any scouting report would say about them is that they are big with strong arms.
Bye bye to that theory. Here’s Ben’s. It reads like a 1st round pick. Nothing like Kizer:
Good: Big armedAre you insane? Seriously? You just provided evidence supporting my claim, and you act like it disproves it? Am I missing something?? Am I being punked?
Are you insane? Seriously? You just provided evidence supporting my claim, and you act like it disproves it? Am I missing something?? Am I being punked?
Yes. Yes. Yes. No. No.
I just answered all 5 of those questions in order.
Soup, would you not agree that when it comes to finding a QB, “Big and Strong armed” would be the 1st 2 things you’d look for? Wouldn’t you say those were the 2 main building blocks for a QB? Wouldn’t you agree it’s fair to say that it’s a major risk in taking a QB that doesn’t possess these 2 qualities?
He said the first TWO (2) things mentioned would be big and strong armed.
In fact, the only mentioned strength of those 2 is arm strength. The rest of the strengths praises his actual ability as a QB in regards to reads and throwing the actual ball
Freedom!!!
You guys are turning this discussion into an argument about semantics. Arguing over the order of words is not interesting.
@Soup I never said I didn’t like these QB’s, I said I don’t like any of them in the 1st round. I like a couple of them in the 2nd. Most ‘experts’ think Kizer was a good value where we got him. I view him as more of a 3rd rounder. He’s a guy who might be a decent NFL backup who with time can possibly become a starter and maybe a good one. That reads 3rd round to me. Still I credit Brown with not jumping up to getting the QB. Thank goodness we didn’t spend a 1st rounder on any of them, especially 12. I don’t know if the picks will work out, but Sashi has proven that he is an expert at riding the current of the draft and not paddling against it.
You guys are turning this discussion into an argument about semantics. Arguing over the order of words is not interesting.
@soup I never said I didn’t like these QB’s, I said I don’t like any of them in the 1st round. I like a couple of them in the 2nd. Most ‘experts’ think Kizer was a good value where we got him. I view him as more of a 3rd rounder. He’s a guy who might be a decent NFL backup who with time can possibly become a starter and maybe a good one. That reads 3rd round to me. Still I credit Brown with not jumping up to getting the QB. Thank goodness we didn’t spend a 1st rounder on any of them, especially 12. I don’t know if the picks will work out, but Sashi has proven that he is an expert at riding the current of the draft and not paddling against it.I agree, except Kizer is a 6th in my eyes. So the overview is this:
Kizer 6th round talent taken in round 2 (think Geno Smith and Jimmy Clausen)
Brantley 2nd round talent taken in round 6
Freedom!!!
He said the first TWO (2) things mentioned would be big and strong armed.
In fact, the only mentioned strength of those 2 is arm strength. The rest of the strengths praises his actual ability as a QB in regards to reads and throwing the actual ballYou are correct, the scouting report on BIG Ben did not explicitly state that he’s BIG. I’d say it still factored into the evaluation. The rest of Big Bens profile, well that’s why he was picked at 11 or whatever it was, and not at 52 like Kizer.
In regards to the 6th round comment, that’s only in your eyes. I stated he was a 3rd rounder before the draft for basically the same reasons Ice gave.
While I hated the pick initially, I’ve come around. I was pretty against Kizer because I was so used to the thought of picking him in the 1st round. At the end of the second? He’s actually only a small reach on my arbitrary 3rd round grade, and since it’s a QB, that’s the one position I advocate reaching for.
With all the holes on this roster a reach for any position is crazy. We still didn’t address free safety. The ball will be flying over the back end all year long.
I’d have picked Obi and turned him into a FS due to his coverage abilities. He went 4 picks later to Oakland.
I hope that m wrong about him. I really do. But, a kid being benched in college after regressing is not a good sign for a guy that needs to be a starter. Meaning your 1st and 2nd round picks should all end up starting for you. 3-5 will make up the bulk of the rest of your team. That’s why if Kessler proves to be a very good back up at best, that pick is a win because it’s in round 3.
Where we are in trouble. Let’s say Kizer sits the whole year. Let’s say we go 2-14 and get the #1 pick. Let’s pretend the FO keeps their job. If a can’t miss QB comes out they won’t take him.
On the flip side let’s say Kizer starts and we go 6-10 and he shows to be mediocre. Let’s say Houston gets injury plagued and goes 2-14 and gets the #1 pick. Sam scenario. We screw ourselves because of a major reach.
I don’t see any good outcome from a guy who came out a year too early after being benched. Also his penchant to fall apart in Q4 is terrible. Failed 6 out of 6 times when given the chance to win or tie in Q4. He was a major part of their problem. Had the next 11 games been equivalent to Texas game 1, had he improves year over year, had he not been benched – then the story is totally different. But it’s not.
Bottom line overall, until he proves me dead wrong on the field, this pick is a major bust and we will have a new regime in 2019
Freedom!!!
yoir logic is sooooo deeply flawed, it’s insane. You’re concern about Kizer is that having him somehow prevents us from picking a QB next year? Huh? So Seattle shouldn’t have picked Russel Wilson? Oakland shouldn’t have taken Derek Carr? You’re basically saying you should never take a QB in the second round.
You can’t draft at the QB position thinking about next year. Let’s sa you bank on taking a qb next year because there will be 2 sure fire QBs. What happens when you get the 3rd pick? You’re sunk. What happens when one of your surefire QBs tears his acl in December? You’re sunk. What happens when that guy refuses to play for you a la Eli Manning? You’re sunk.
As for “we have too many holes to reach,” qb is the one position you can reach at. The value of franchise QB on their rookie deal is immeasurable. It’s what allowed Baltimore and Seattle to get rings. It’s the one position you can reach, because the payback has the potential to be much higher.
With all the holes on this roster a reach for any position is crazy.
Yet you laud a pick that is “a potential Richard Seymor” in the 6th round that might might be vacated because he separated a 110-pound womans brain from her body with a punch that looks like Bald Bulls from Mike Tysons punch-out.
You’re uhhhhh, you’re TOTALLY okay with that?
Interesting.
Where we are in trouble. Let’s say Kizer sits the whole year. Let’s say we go 2-14 and get the #1 pick. Let’s pretend the FO keeps their job. If a can’t miss QB comes out they won’t take him.
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW THAT???
HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU EVEN PROCLAIM THAT? Who the fuck are you?
Are you serious? We have 2 1sts and 3 2nds next year, we can literally make a deal to go get whatever player we want lol. Even the 1st overall. Get real here man. Pay attention.
Sweet christ I have to break down your insanity into groups and deal with them seperatley, that’s all I have for now. I’ll get to the rest later when I’m soberer.
Where we are in trouble. Let’s say Kizer sits the whole year. Let’s say we go 2-14 and get the #1 pick. Let’s pretend the FO keeps their job. If a can’t miss QB comes out they won’t take him.
On the flip side let’s say Kizer starts and we go 6-10 and he shows to be mediocre. Let’s say Houston gets injury plagued and goes 2-14 and gets the #1 pick. Sam scenario. We screw ourselves because of a major reach.So no matter what because we chose ANY QB in one of the first rounds of this draft we’ve ruined the team? You don’t think Sashi is smart enough to grab an awesome QB if one falls to us next season? You think he’d say ‘nah, we don’t know what we have in Kizer yet’? Ridiculous. You know how I know it’s ridiculous? Because you said it for years about Charlie Frye. ‘Don’t draft a QB, we don’t know what we have in Frye’.
Truth: after a full year with Kizer, if we end up with the #1 draft pick and there’s a ‘can’t miss’ QB Hue will know whether or not Kizer is the answer. If Kizer does not have Superbowl tattooed on his eyeballs then we’re getting that QB. It’s the exact same position Carolina was in when they drafted Cam Newton, despite drafting Jimmy Claussen in the 2nd round the year before.Most 6th and 7th round picks don’t make the team. 2nd round picks (and 1st obviously) should be starters. Not sure why you don’t see the difference in that.
Having a lot of picks is meaningless if you use them wrong (Trent Richardson, Brandon Weeden, Gilbert, Manziel,etc.).
This is the draft they had to absolutely nail on their 1st and 2nd round picks. Those 4 guys MUST be starters and must be good players. This is a make or break draft.
Freedom!!!
No matter what round you take a QB in (due to it being the most important position), you’re assuming some kind of risk. There’s going to be several things that a team likes enough to warrant that risk, like using a draft pick. Even a second-round one.
You can’t know unless you take the risk. And if he fails, we get a new one. Simple.
And word to the wise, Soup…only Carnac could see the future.
I found this site after searching for dawgbones. New website, same old soup. I’m surprised he’s not a big time coach on Friday Night Tykes. There’s just too much knowledge in his brain for him not to share with today’s youth. That’s just selfish. That’s really the perfect place for Soup. Those elementary age kids would treat him like the football God he thinks he is.
I found this site after searching for dawgbones. New website, same old soup. I’m surprised he’s not a big time coach on Friday Night Tykes. There’s just too much knowledge in his brain for him not to share with today’s youth. That’s just selfish. That’s really the perfect place for Soup. Those elementary age kids would treat him like the football God he thinks he is.
He’s Hacksaw Jim Duggan’s wrestling coach.
Hue Jackson is a loser.
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